Wednesday, August 23, 2006

Dembski and Foxman on Darwin and Hitler

As a follow up to my previous post about the TV show about the Darwin-Hitler connection, you may want to read William Dembski's post here. He says this in part:
To be sure, there were many other streams of thought that played into Nazi racism and the holocaust, but to say that Darwinism played no role, or even an insignificant role, is absurd. Read Richard Weikart’s FROM DARWIN TO HITLER: EVOLUTIONARY ETHICS, EUGENICS, AND RACISM IN GERMANY.

This is what Abraham Foxman of the ADL had to say:

ADL National Director Abraham H. Foxman said in a statement: "This is an outrageous and shoddy attempt by D. James Kennedy to trivialize the horrors of the Holocaust. Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people. Trivializing the Holocaust comes from either ignorance at best or, at worst, a mendacious attempt to score political points in the culture war on the backs of six million Jewish victims and others who died at the hands of the Nazis.

It must be remembered that D. James Kennedy is a leader among the distinct group of 'Christian Supremacists' who seek to "reclaim America for Christ" and turn the U.S. into a Christian nation guided by their strange notions of biblical law."

Wow. I guess it is true that Hitler did not "need" Darwin, but it seems like that misses the point. I also do not follow the logic that discussing the philosophical influences that led to the Holocaust somehow trivializes it. It seems to me that, if anything, it does the opposite. I will stay tuned to see if there is a more logical critique.


9 Comments:

At August 24, 2006 1:36 AM, Blogger Steven Carr said...

Hitler, of course, was a creationist, at least as far as human beings were concerned.

Hitler explicity rejected Darwinism and the evolution of man from apes.

From Hitler's Tischgespraeche for the night of the 25th to 26th 1942 'Woher nehmen wir das Recht zu glauben, der Mensch sei nicht von Uranfaengen das gewesen , was er heute ist? Der Blick in die Natur zeigt uns, dass im Bereich der Pflanzen und Tiere Veraenderungen und Weiterbildungen vorkommen. Aber nirgends zeigt sich innherhalb einer Gattung eine Entwicklung von der Weite des Sprungs, den der Mensch gemacht haben muesste, sollte er sich aus einem affenartigen Zustand zu dem, was er ist, fortgebildet haben.'


And in the entry for 27 February 1942 , Hitler says 'Das, was der Mensch von dem Tier voraushat, der veilleicht wunderbarste Beweis fuer die Ueberlegenheit des Menschen ist, dass er begriffen hat, dass es eine Schoepferkraft geben muss.'

Hitler also wrote 'Die zehn Gebote sind Ordnungsgesetze, die absolut lobenswert sind.'

 
At August 24, 2006 7:02 AM, Anonymous John said...

Hitler loved and fully supported Darwinism:

"Flueven Hueven Farfegnugen, Juden ist verboten" - Adolph Hitler

 
At August 24, 2006 8:49 AM, Blogger Larry Fafarman said...

ADL's Foxman said, "Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people." But as an exasperated King Lear said, "O, reason not the need!" Another question might be whether Darwinism helped Hitler devise his plan. Even if Darwinism is true, that is no reason to avoid examining Darwinism's social consequences. We know that there has been something called "Social Darwinism," and it is fair to examine the influence it might have had on Nazism. Foxman has apparently not even seen the TV program but has already passed judgment on it.

Would the ADL have objected to this TV program if the ADL did not support Darwinism? The ADL supports Darwinism mainly because of a view that teaching or even mention of criticisms of Darwinism in public schools violates the separation of church and state. The ADL strongly supports the Darwinist Kitzmiller v. Dover decision, and Jewish groups have in various court cases filed amicus briefs opposing the teaching or even mention of criticism of Darwinism in the public schools.

ADL's Foxman said that this TV program is "at worst, a mendacious attempt to score political points in the culture war on the backs of six million Jewish victims and others who died at the hands of the Nazis." Right. Only the ADL and other Jewish organizations are allowed to attempt to score political points in the culture war on the backs of the Nazis' victims. And the ADL is attempting to do that right here!

Foxman's response to the TV program was a hypersensitive overreaction.

More of my comments about this controversy are on my blog at --
http://im-from-missouri.blogspot.com/2006/08/culture-war-over-darwin-and-hitler-is.html

 
At August 24, 2006 11:55 AM, Anonymous John said...

I just found this essay (Adobe PDF) today, which is an excellent tracing of Malthus to Darwin to U.S. and U.K. eugenics groups to Hitler and finally to Ehrlich and other contemporary neofascist environmentalists.

It doesn't pull any punches on America's role in eugenics, so it's not some sort of red-state, flag-waving, truck-driving, NASCAR-loving screed. You know, the usual genetic-fallacy-based pigeonhole that Darwinist trolls throw stuff into so they don't have to think about it.

 
At August 26, 2006 3:14 PM, Blogger Steven Carr said...

As pointed out though, Hitler advocated special creation of human beings

From Mein Kampf - Volume 2 :-
"Thus for the first time a high inner purpose is accredited to the State. In face of the ridiculous phrase that the State should do no more than act as the guardian of public order and tranquillity, so that everybody can peacefully dupe everybody else, it is given a very high mission indeed to preserve and encourage the highest type of humanity which a beneficent Creator has bestowed on this earth."

"And, further, they ought to be brought to realize that it is their bounden duty to give to the Almighty Creator beings such as He himself made to His own image."

Hitler - 27 February 1942 - 'Das, was der Mensch von dem Tier voraushat, der veilleicht wunderbarste Beweis fuer die Ueberlegenheit des Menschen ist, dass er begriffen hat, dass es eine Schoepferkraft geben muss.'

 
At August 26, 2006 3:17 PM, Blogger Steven Carr said...

Would the Malthus mentioned above be the REVEREND Thomas Malthus? I think it might....

 
At August 26, 2006 4:28 PM, Anonymous John said...

Would the Malthus mentioned above be the REVEREND Thomas Malthus? I think it might....

Yes. Anglican clergy. The Church of England. A state-created religion, one of the more "progressive" (read: Communist and Humanist) ones. Nice of you to clarify that.

From Wikipedia:
"Malthus was born to a prosperous family. His father Daniel was a personal friend of the philosopher and skeptic David Hume and an acquaintance of Jean-Jacques Rousseau."

Not exactly Aquinas we're talking about here.


As pointed out though, Hitler advocated special creation of human beings

Except that the words "creation" and "human beings" didn't mean the same thing to Hitler as they do to Bible-believing Christians.

(translated quotes from Mein Kampf)

Hey look, somebody finally understood they were posting on a blog written in English! The same somebody conveniently left out some of what they were copying, though. The portion that somebody decided to post is in bold, the rest was left out:
----------------------------------
The folkish philosophy of life which bases the State on the racial idea must finally succeed in bringing about a nobler era, in which men will no longer pay exclusive attention to breeding and rearing pedigree dogs and horses and cats, but will endeavour to improve the breed of the human race itself. That will be an era of silence and renunciation for one class of people, while the others will give their gifts and make their sacrifices joyfully.

That such a mentality may be possible cannot be denied in a world where hundreds and thousands accept the principle of celibacy from their own choice, without being obliged or pledged to do so by anything except an ecclesiastical precept. Why should it not be possible to induce people to make this sacrifice if, instead of such a precept, they were simply told that they ought to put an end to this truly original sin of racial corruption which is steadily being passed on from one generation to another. And, further, they ought to be brought to realize that it is their bounden duty to give to the Almighty Creator beings such as He himself made to His own image.
----------------------------------

Breeding people like dogs and cats and other livestock, the idea that God made "Aryans" in his own image but noone else... maybe these things were taught in your Sunday school class, in which case you should report your church to whomever gave them their charter.

Don't bother going to my link and reading the actual volume and chapter of Mein Kampf from which you quoted; it only gets worse for your position. Besides, I put it there only for people brainwashed by Christianity to the point of imagining some connection between Darwinism and Hitler's skewed philosophy, like Columbine Christian-shooters^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hlovers Klebold and Harris, for instance.

Hitler - 27 February 1942 - 'Das, was der Mensch von dem Tier voraushat, der veilleicht wunderbarste Beweis fuer die Ueberlegenheit des Menschen ist, dass er begriffen hat, dass es eine Schoepferkraft geben muss.'


"Durka durka Mohammed jihad, uppen der poopenshooten." - Adolf Hitler, 1945, in a ditch.

More good stuff here.

 
At August 26, 2006 4:41 PM, Anonymous John said...

One more thing. The Mein Kampf quote again, relevant portion:

----------------------------------
That such a mentality may be possible cannot be denied in a world where hundreds and thousands accept the principle of celibacy from their own choice, without being obliged or pledged to do so by anything except an ecclesiastical precept. Why should it not be possible to induce people to make this sacrifice if, instead of such a precept, they were simply told that they ought to put an end to this truly original sin of racial corruption which is steadily being passed on from one generation to another. And, further, they ought to be brought to realize that it is their bounden duty to give to the Almighty Creator beings such as He himself made to His own image.
---------------------------------

This time I bolded something that exposes the true context of your excerpt. Hitler here isn't speaking about his own beliefs; much like you and your cohorts, he was addressing Christian objections to his ideas by rhetorically reframing such arguments to support his own view.

It's a lot like the "religious left" in America today.

 
At September 21, 2006 2:34 AM, Blogger Vargas said...

Regardless of what the man said his actions speak far, far louder than his words. By rounding up all people he decided were sub-human and systematically exterminating them throughout Europe he showed beond a shadow of a doubt that he believed in Darwinian Evolution.

Case closed.

 

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